Possible, but less likely, alternative to BYOND

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Post by The Spaniard on Mon 7 Mar - 7:11:38

As I was surfing the Internet today I stumbled upon a program that I used to play around with a few years back. Said program is "Blender" it's a 3D animation and rendering program, you're probably wondering "So what? How is this going to help us?"
http://www.blender.org/
(BLENDER IS COMPLETELY FREE)

Well, I remembered that Blender can be used to make games via built in python(a programming language) interface. Though I know very little python, this program would break the boundaries that were set with byond. Those being the main problem with our art side of the game. We, and by we I mean the artist(s) in charge of the game's visuals and others, can have a much, much easier time making the visuals needed since there is no limit to blender(literally, i've seen amazing things from that program).

The one, major, downfall to this change would be that I would have to learn the python programming language(though it's not so different from others, i still need to learn) AS WELL as the stuff needed to make the game into a small mmo.

So, as the poll asks, what do you guys think? Should we stick with BYOND and hope that we can make the game as good as we want it, or flip over to Blender and hope for the same but with smaller boundaries.
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Post by MINDROP on Mon 7 Mar - 9:20:09

FIRST POSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dang, I need to mature. lol

I say try Blender and make Byond our fall back. We do not have much of anything done either way, so why not try it?


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Post by Durz on Mon 7 Mar - 9:27:08

I agree with MD. I mean it sounds absolutely perfect, with the exception that you only only a bit about it. If it doesn't work, then BYOND will still be there.

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Post by Alfreredocsil on Mon 7 Mar - 10:17:45

I voted stay with BYOND. I absolutely hate the perameters associated with BYOND but thats what Span knows already and the programming will be the heart and soul of the game. I've said before I don't care about the quality of the artwork in the game as long as the storyline is good and the gameplay is good....I'm sticking with that point of view.

Now, some things I don't know could possibly make me change my opinion on that though.
1. How much trouble is it for Span to learn the Python programing language
2. How will using the new system affect the game? Will it make it better or will we have to sacriffice some aspect of the game to use the new system, like a smaller world etc...

I'm all for using the new system if we can still have as good a quality game as far as programming as we would have with BYOND. Also...does this mean we could use the better music sound tracks?
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Post by Neostriker on Mon 7 Mar - 10:30:54

I've always used Blender, it's more for just making graphics, not programming.

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Post by Durz on Mon 7 Mar - 18:16:09

The questions that Alfy asked are very good questions. Also, what will the restrictions be in regard to computer compatibility

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Post by Famoosh on Mon 7 Mar - 18:46:55

Just looking at the front page of Blender, this animation looks like it'd be even harder than BYOND. However, I'm downloading it now, and I'll check it out too.

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Post by Alfreredocsil on Mon 7 Mar - 19:02:12

Actually ithink Span meant that Blender would be for the art and animation but would work on conjunction with the programming language of Python, not that Blender was the programming interface itself.

Maybe I misunderstood though?
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Post by Neostriker on Mon 7 Mar - 19:48:48

Hey, Span, there should be another option in the poll saying "Try both, and see the results."

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Post by Alfreredocsil on Mon 7 Mar - 20:26:06

We'll be lucky to get one version done with one or the other, let alone a version with each code platform. We can try it with one and leave the other as a backup should the first one fail though.

I just looked at blender, it is truly capable of some pretty incredible art from what I saw and I'd certainly be happy if we could attain anything close to the stuff I saw on their site in our game. I'm all for trying it if Span has any inclination that he could use the Python coding.

I almost downloaded the Blender program but I thought I might just wait until Span decides if he wants to try the python coding first.
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Post by Neostriker on Mon 7 Mar - 20:36:41

I don't know, I am not a Blender artist, you'll have to lay me off to switch to Blender for art D:

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Post by Alfreredocsil on Mon 7 Mar - 20:41:12

You can still do pixel art with blender can you not? You just wouldn't have the size restrictions to stay within if we used Blender and the Python coding the way I understand it.

I'm guessing we'll end up staying with BYOND anyway, Span having to learn a new code language would probably put us further behind than the art restrictions.
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Post by Neostriker on Mon 7 Mar - 20:43:10

Oh... all right then. But yeah, I'm also used to making 32x32 pixel art, switching to a bigger size would take some time to get used to.

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Post by deranged on Mon 7 Mar - 22:33:05

Wow this is a hard decision but if we can get the looks of the art on Blender into our game.I want it.The program looks amazing!I have looked at BYOND and played some of the games.The graphics over there aren't very good but o well it is something Span can work with and so it really is up to him.I would prefer the graphics of Blender though.

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Post by Neostriker on Mon 7 Mar - 22:40:39

deranged wrote:Wow this is a hard decision but if we can get the looks of the art on Blender into our game.I want it.The program looks amazing!I have looked at BYOND and played some of the games.The graphics over there aren't very good but o well it is something Span can work with and so it really is up to him.I would prefer the graphics of Blender though.

Yeah, but for something to be good, you have to work hard, Span has to learn Python, and I would have to get used to making pixel art in bigger dimensions.

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Post by deranged on Mon 7 Mar - 22:43:11

He would have to learn Python but he said it was similar to other coding languages.I mean it would take alot more work but it would be worth it in the end.

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Post by Neostriker on Mon 7 Mar - 22:44:12

Yeah, we could try, but it would be a huge shift in the way were working, especially for me, it's hard to do pixel art in 32x32, and when you get used to it, its even harder to stop getting used to it.

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Post by Spartan on Mon 7 Mar - 22:45:39

I can understand that Neo.It would be worth it in the end though even though it would be harder for you and Span having to learn new things.

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Post by Neostriker on Mon 7 Mar - 22:46:39

Yeah, but the game will be delayed 6 months, I will be happy to try, and I know it'll be much better, but I'm just pointing out the downsides of this.

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Post by Spartan on Mon 7 Mar - 22:47:40

Ya I understand.

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Post by Alfreredocsil on Mon 7 Mar - 23:37:58

Well, improving the art limitations would open the art work up to a few more of us. I'd be happy to work on quite a bit of it including the animation if we can get away from the teeny weeny pain in the arse 32's.

It's been a long time since I worked with animations but I can get back into it I think. Also programs have changed by light years since then so I'll basically have to re-learn most of it I guess. At least I'm familiar with the principles of it though.
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Post by Durz on Mon 7 Mar - 23:58:00

I agree. I am also happy to work on a portion of the art. The graphics is really the only bad thing about this game (right now) and if we switch to blender, it would be fixed. The only thing is it would take a lot more work and delay the game even more.

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Post by The Spaniard on Tue 8 Mar - 1:23:53

Now, some things I don't know could possibly make me change my opinion on that though.
1. How much trouble is it for Span to learn the Python programing language
2. How will using the new system affect the game? Will it make it better or will we have to sacriffice some aspect of the game to use the new system, like a smaller world etc...

1) I'm pretty confident that I can learn it in a reasonable amount of time since there are tutorials all of the internet as well as books I can buy.

2) If all goes well it will make it way better. Dragon riding wouldn't be a problem anymore since it would actually be 3D, making attacks and stuff would be easier since it would just consist of animating it(instead of redrawing) but the world would have to be somewhat smaller since the files will be considerably larger.

The main problem for me is figuring out how to connect all of us together, and how well I will be able to make the classes.

So #2 is a toughy, it will make it better in some and not so much in others(not entirely sure, I need to do more research on the online/game capabilities.

Actually ithink Span meant that Blender would be for the art and animation but would work on conjunction with the programming language of Python, not that Blender was the programming interface itself.


It is mainly for graphics and art, but there's a Python section in it that allows you to add values and properties to whatever you want(As far as I know). I still need to do more research on it. But I do know for a fact that you can make a game with it

Yeah, but for something to be good, you have to work hard, Span has to learn Python, and I would have to get used to making pixel art in bigger dimensions.

That is true, but the artist can make something very simple (blobs?) but not lose the ability to make them somewhat detailed, if that makes any sense >.>

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Post by Durz on Tue 8 Mar - 1:34:05

Wow, that post was very informative.I think, with the info from that post, we should go ahead with it.

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Post by Alfreredocsil on Tue 8 Mar - 1:45:09

Haha, yeah it sounds awesome. I'm still holding my breath though until Span has time (or wants) to do some more research on things. For one thing, it seems a lot like a game engine that you wanted to stay away from.
For another thing, the ability to connect us all bugs me too.

It's a lot like the game engine I worked with a while back, it seemed very promising but after I got into it and worked with it...it sucked and made my PC crash. I could go far enough to make a decent sized level but anything past that just made it shut down completely.

This one seems better so far though. I'm just anxious now to see if the hosting portion of it ca nbe worked out without costing us like $5 grand per year for a publication license. pale It might actually be worth it if we could market it but the copyright issues kinda screw that up.
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